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Supervisors scratch prayer from the agenda

Debra Moore
Staff Writer
1/23/2013
 

  Supervisor Lori Simpson said that she prays before, during and after Tuesday board meetings — and she still can, but prayer will no longer be part of the regular agenda.

  That’s the decision reached by the Plumas County Board of Supervisors during its Jan. 15 meeting.

  Historically, the board opens its meetings with an invocation from a member of the local clergy, followed by the flag salute.

  Last August the board received a letter from the Freedom From Religion Foundation objecting to the practice.

  The group objects to prayer at government meetings as being “unnecessary, inappropriate and divisive,” but in the case of Plumas County described it as “unconstitutional” because the invocations are given almost exclusively by the pastor of one Christian church.

  Deputy County Counsel Stephen Mansell said that the group did not explicitly threaten a lawsuit, but has done so throughout the country in similar situations.

  Indeed, a visit to the group’s website revealed a number of actions against government institutions and schools. Some involved lawsuits, but many of the governmental bodies caved to the group’s demands, fearing the cost of legal fees.

  In a recommendation letter to the supervisors, Mansell said that the U.S. Supreme Court has held that invocations given at meetings are “generally constitutional” but didn’t provide additional direction. Recent lower court decisions have upheld the practice of invocations in some circumstances.

  Mansell suggested adopting the city of Lancaster’s policy as a model because it has already been upheld in federal court as constitutional and several other jurisdictions have adopted similar policies.

  The key components are to create a list of speakers to give invocations and to establish a rotating schedule.

  “This is an inclusive policy that will provide for a diverse selection of invocational speakers while preventing denominational discrimination or preference,” Mansell advised in his letter.

  But during his presentation directly to board, Mansell said that it would “make my job easier if we got rid of the invocation altogether or move to a moment of silence.”

  Mansell said using a rotating schedule of diverse speakers would be easier to implement in a more urban area.

  Supervisor Sherrie Thrall said with a smile that while she appreciated “people praying that I have wisdom, I do believe strongly in separation of church and state.”

  She said it could be complicated to implement a rotating schedule and asked if a moment of silence would also elicit the threat of a lawsuit.

  Mansell said that it would be easier to defend.

  “I totally agree with separation of church and state,” Supervisor Jon Kennedy said, but still he bristled that “one of these groups who will never step foot in Plumas County,” could influence the board’s practices.

  Kennedy asked if a prayer during public comment would be allowed.

  “If it’s not a setup, it’s permissible,” Mansell replied.

  Public Works Director Bob Perreault urged the supervisors to continue with the prayer.

  “You are kowtowing to what the demand is,” Perreault said. He suggested that the supervisors adopt the resolution, but rather than seeking out speakers, ask religious leaders to identify themselves as interested.

  Pastor George Tarleton, of the First Baptist Church of Quincy, who usually says the invocation, as he did that morning, said, “Most of the pastors aren’t interested.”

  “I’m perturbed that an organization from across the country threatens us,” Board Chairman Terry Swofford said.

  The board discussed the option of continuing the prayer until the group filed suit, but Mansell said the county could be held responsible for attorney fees that Freedom From Religion Foundation incurred to that point.

  Ultimately the board decided to strike the invocation from the regular agenda, and upon Supervisor Kevin Goss’ suggestion consider another resolution at a later date.

 

Comments  

 
-14#1RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaLarryB2013-01-23 07:21
It's a true shame that the board bowed to the demands of a very tiny minority.
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-15#2RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaDavid L2013-01-23 08:05
Our liberties and founding principles are being chipped away as we stand by and watch. I am very concerned about removing God from our country.
I am also concerned about the recent attempts by government to restrict gun ownership. Our freedom is being eroded and our leaders are participating!
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+3#3Get over itNick2013-01-23 08:20
Prayer has NO PLACE in politics! Keep your god and guns to yourselves!
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+18#4In these times I need scriptureGoyo2013-01-23 09:45
Matthew 6:6

But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private. Then your Father, who sees everything, will reward you.
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+12#5David LGoyo2013-01-23 10:13
Our liberty and founding principles are separation of church and state. Read the Bill of Rights. I assume you know the 2nd, but how about the first? BTW what type of gun do you see God using? AR-15? Nah, I bet a 30-06 would work for him. Bet he doesn't even need a scope.
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-5#6Where does it say separate church & Gov't?kyle2013-01-23 12:17
archives.gov/.../...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, ...
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+8#7RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaGoyo2013-01-23 12:57Quote| Report to administrator
 
 
+15#8RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendadmac2013-01-23 16:05
If you consider the Constitution and the separation of church and state to be a "tiny minority", then I'm all for the tiny minority. It's a disgrace that morons who believe in garbage like religion are allowed to bring any 'god' into politics.
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+11#9dmacGoyo2013-01-23 16:22
It's not any god it's one god, a christian god they want intertwined in their politics. They don't want a representative from "other" religions, it's all christian. That is the root of the problem. It's intolerance of others and a will to impose their beliefs and only their beliefs.
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+15#10RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaTanya Henrich2013-01-23 16:30
Supes' - You would be surprised at the number of non-believers in your midst. Most people are fearful to admit they don't believe in god. Prayers at public meetings make me extremely uncomfortable. I am SO relieved you are stopping this illegal practice.
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-7#11n/aJames Reese2013-01-24 06:23
GOOD you people should stop prayer all together too.
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+9#12FFRF MemberJim Evans2013-01-24 13:37
I am a long-time member of the Freedom From Religion Foundation.I am also the local citzen that informed FFRF of the divisive and unconstitutional invocations at our County Supervisors' meetings. I am thrilled at the result!!! Yes, I started the ball rolling.
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-16#13This country is in troubleG. Thomas2013-01-24 14:35
This country was built on the principles of freedom of religion and on God's law. As to prayer being restrictled to only Christian religion and no other God, there is only One God! If you don't believe that, look around at all the catastrophies happening in our country as replemands from God.
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+11#14Thank you BOSMaggie Wells2013-01-24 21:57
Very proud of our BOS for keeping the separation of church and state strong. I love the natural beauty of Plumas but the oppression of Christianity is overwhelming--non-Christian students get bullied in our schools! A great first step --Christian tyranny will not override justice and equality.
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+9#15Goyodmac2013-01-25 18:13
Bringing ANY god into government proceedings is illegal. Any god is offensive to those intelligent enough to see the stupidity of gods and religions.
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-9#16RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaRoger Jensen2013-01-25 22:40
Eventually this decision will come-back to bite the BOS in the rear-end.
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-10#17RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaRay2013-01-26 19:59
Hmm I wonder what copy of the Bill of Rights your have? No where in the text of the 1st Amendment does it state anything about seperation of church and State. What it does state is "Congress shall make no law repecting the establishment of religon." Go read it and the Declaration of Independence.
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+9#18This was 9th grade civics peopleGoyo2013-01-27 07:20
Ray, Kyle, with a little bit of searching you could have found the answer for yourselves. Here's some links for you all to educate yourself with. archive.adl.org/.../...
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-3#19try again, why am I bothering?Goyo2013-01-27 07:22
en.wikipedia.org/.../...
archive.adl.org/.../...
Hmm I wonder what militia people belong in if they have guns?
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+8#20RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaRay2013-01-27 07:30
Goyo, 1st link didn't work, but wikipedia did. I did go check it and it clearly stated that Jefferson wrote the phrase "wall of separation between church and state" in his letter to the Danbury Baptist Assoc. However it did not make it into the Constitution.
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-11#21RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaRay2013-01-27 07:36
To be clear, I believe the 1st Amendment refers to freedom of religion and the practice thereof not the freedom from religion that seems to permeate our society. I understand the problem with the BOS being only a single pastor giving the innvocation, but it seems that no other wanted to step up.
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+1#22RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaGoyo2013-01-27 07:54
Our democracy is fluid and as such the founding documents have been interpreted throughout their existence. It needs to keep up with the times. Ala #2. It's intent was to form a peoples army when a national army did not exist. Now felons can't own weapons. Never said it first time around.
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+9#23RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaGoyo2013-01-27 07:56
Religion shouldn't permeate our society. You should be free to practice whatever faith you want, but leave me alone. Our founding fathers understood that and their religious values continually get portrayed as stronger than they were. They sought to end religious prosecution.
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+10#24RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaGoyo2013-01-27 07:58
When I have this discussion with people who don't even understand and remember our lessons of the first amendment, what can I do? The prayer should not be read at a gov't. meeting period. I can completely understand why other religions or atheists are AFRAID to speak up in this community.
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-12#25RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaGary2013-01-27 08:37
The perspective of today has been changed from the original intent of our founding fathers. The intent was to keep government out of religion, not religion out of government.
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-12#26RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaGary2013-01-27 08:38
The privileges we have in this country are because of the commitment our founding fathers had to being followers of Jesus Christ and their respect of the bible.
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-9#27RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaGary2013-01-27 08:40
What is best for the country used to be what is best for the individual. Sadly today, what is best for the individual is no longer a concern.
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+9#28RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaGoyo2013-01-27 08:58
Gary- Seriously man, no disrespect meant, but sounds like communist dogma to me. Just replace J.C. with some other cult of personality.
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+8#29RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaGoyo2013-01-27 09:06
I really hope this isn't "Everything I needed to know about our Founding Fathers I learned from Bill O'reilly."
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+8#30RE: Supervisors scratch prayer from the agendaRobert Hutchinson2013-02-01 09:47
Keep prayer and all religeous observation out of all government actions.
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